The Q&A thing from the D-DAY Forum concerning how to map

Topics related to map making for D-Day.
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Mr. YOur no fun
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Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 9:48 pm

The Q&A thing from the D-DAY Forum concerning how to map

Post by Mr. YOur no fun »

How to read this document
1)All Main topics are in Full Caps lock and in bold print.
2)The Basic Question and author looks like: ***Name***
3)The author of the response looks like: ---Name---
4)Any later additions to the document have: >>>Name<<<

connection to Quake 2 entity and question information

---Munf--The Quake 2 engine draws images by building triangles on the face of each surface you see including the sky. A cube has 6 surfaces, so as you can see these triangles add up fast. These are wpolys.

While playing Quake2, the engine determines where you are and what you can see as described by the surfaces and textures in the direction you are facing. If you turn around Q2 will calculate and draw that view. The more things or distance, the more to draw, the more effort your CPU needs to put out. If you have a slow CPU and you turn toward a complex sight, the system will slow down your presentation until it has drawn everything, or it can even stop in some machines. Your map can have thousands of wpolys, the question is what can the machine see at this second from where you are looking?

Think about Q2 maps.They are generally enclosed halls with some open space. The Q2 engine has a limit to how far away and also up it can draw. As you move forward it will draw images as they come closer. Visually interesting, but quite distracting for gaming, especially if they can shoot you and their image hasn't even been drawn yet.

The amount of "triangles" being draw is expressed as r_speeds.

---Munf--- This is a statement of how many wploys (triangle) the engine can see from any given location in the direction you are facing. Type + set r_speeds 1 when you load from the Run Command to see this, or in the consule.

How to reduce wpolys.
I suggest you read tutorials but essentially when Q2 compiles the game to play, it goes to every location in the map, and then decides everything that can be drawn from every location in every direction. This data is included in the compiled map so Q2 does not have to do those calculations on the fly while you are playing the game. This is why compiling takes so long. You simply have to compile if you want a good map that others can play. This compilation can take hours, in fact days if need be, but it is neccessary.


On Goals of a map...
***Munf***If the goals are ten thing to blow up and 40 kill, does that mean 10 + 40, or 10 or 40?
---Fafner--10 or 40

Concerning Objectives...
*** Munf***How do I to describe the objectives at the start so the players know what they are after.
---Fafner---You mean the objective pic? Just open the ddaytemplate.pcx dday/pics/objectives, edit and save it as the name of your map in dday/pics/objectives. Don't overwrite ddaytemplate.pcx.

***Munf*** I built a map with 5 german bunkers. I want the Allies have to take the five bunkers by standing on their floors or maybe passing through their entry ways. I want it so the bunkers can not be retaken. I tried the objective touch entry but it allows both to capture the bunker.

I gave the Germans a goal of killing 150 allies. For count I selected "Campaign" not having a clue what that means. After I compiled the map I was looking through it with Wordpad and it showed the goal of 150, but the count was 99. Is the count refering to something else?
---Fafner---You're going to have a problem with your objectives possibly. Once the allies take the bunkers the axis will be able to recapture them and regain the points. You cant have it so objectives can only be taken once. For count, just put 99. I dont know what that means, but it's like that for every dday map. It's not related to the points or kills

***Munf*** I was setting it up so the bunkers are only taken once. It seems a bit much to have to hold the bunkers. On the other hand the germans should be able to retake them and use them if they make a successful counter attack.
~What if the allies close access to the bunker? I tried this with those walls that disappear, but everytime someone crosses the trigger the door opens and closes, and that won't work.
~I see there is a way to blow up things. What if the allies blow up the bunker and make it unusable, then they get the points? Would that work better? I have to learn how it but it also makes more sense.
~If I set up the bunkers with function objectives does that mean the Germans get a point when they enter a bunker? I have them set as the owners. Or does a point get subtracted from the allies? If the latter is true then the allies would need to hold all five bunkers to win, correct?
---Castrator---You can do 2 things:
1) Have it where allies lose no points each time the objectives are Reclaimed (set the 'dmg' value to 0)
2) Have the allies lose a point if the objective is retaken (in which case they would have to hold all 5 at the same time to win.
~The problem being with the first scenario, since axis will always have the ability to retake the objective, allies could just hang around one bunker and keep retaking it over and over (instead of advancing to the other bunkers) until they got their 5 points.
~In the second scenario, it becomes incredibly hard for you to get a good balance between axis and allies. It is really hard for a team to hold 5 positions at once.
~You may want to seriously consider your idea about making the objectives explode when they are captured instead, or figure out some sort of door system that locks behind them.

***Munf***I am thinking that the allies have to throw a granade in to a bunker and explode it before they get the point, then have the roof cave in and shut it down.
---Castrator---The other thing you can do is make something where not all the bunkers are actual dday objectives. If you still want allies to capture them to win, you could do something like this:
~The first 2 bunkers encountered have tnt stored in them. The allies have to enter those bunkers and detonate the tnt. That blows a hole into some sort of underground connection tubes that allows the allies access to 2 other bunkers that they can then hold. You could have your 5th bunker enterable from the outside so they dont have to try as hard to get to it.
~Just try and think of scenarios that can be fun. The trick is to realise that not all you objetives have to be "dday objective entities". Like on fafners invade1 map. Most of the map is just regular quake2 triggers with one final dday objective all the way at the end. Using the regular func_explosive, you can do a lot of things to vary up the missions.

***Munf***As these bunkers are on a cliff, and as the game isn't finished, what if the bunker highest up is an HQ bunker, and if the allies take that then the game is over? There would still be the other defense positions to get through but it wouldn't be so hard to achieve the end result?
---Castrator---That could work, but you dont want the allies to just head straight for it. Put switches or something in the others that the allies have to hit first before that bunker opens up. You can use a trigger_counter to ensure that all 4 switches (or explosions, or whatever) have been activated before the door to the headquarters is opened.

Parts of my level disappear
***Munf***I am having trouble with the sky. Because the map is so verticle I have had to put in walls and a ceiling. Without them the sky actually makes the top cliff disappear. When an allied soldier stands on the landing craft you only see the first level of cliff and then the sky. It would definetly look cooler with a sky but I have this problem. Perhaps I should only have one level of cliffs, and then a plateau with the HQ bunker in the back? Then I could set it up that there is a barrier that blows open when the other bunkers are taken, then there is an assault on the HQ bunker? Some more trenches as defense maybe? That might work.
---Castrator---As for your map disappearing, that is due to a limitation of Quake2. It only draws geometry for so far and then it cuts it off. You can see a case of this on dday1 when you stand all the way on the lower left side of the beach and look to the right side; the cliffs will disappear.
~There is no one good way to resolve the problem aside from making the distances visable in your map shorter. The thing you said about the plateau could work. If you really want to make some high cliffs you could do it in stages. Make a cliff, then add a long platea...perhaps with some of the bunkers on it. Then have more cliffs further back. Once the allies climb those, they advance to another plateau and capture the remaining bunkers. This way the engine isnt cuttin off stuff. You will still run into r_speed problems though. And I suspect your design does not really take poly counts into consideration too much.
~Another design that may fix some of your soon to be poly count problems is the following. Have your initial cliff, the allies climb up. Once up, they are on a plateau with bunkers dug into another cliff towards the back. The allies cannot climb that second cliff, it is too shear. Instead, they blow open the bunkers and enter into them. They then go up through some tunnels and arive at another outdoor section of the map. This section should feel like it is above that unclimbable second cliff, but you shouldnt be able to see down to the first plateau. The reason being the engine would end up drawing the entire map. Instead, just have the second plateau in a new area that is in no way connected to the original open area other than through the bunker tunnels. Add your second set of bunkers up there.
~Of course, you dont have to do any of that and it would probably be a lot of work. But, if you are having r_speed problems (type r_speeds 1 in the console to see the wpoly numbers...dont let them go about 800 or so), then this would be a good solution.

***Sheriff Hoot***
Ok, I'm working on a map with a few trenches, and I'm wondering if it would be better to use negative poly's to cut out the trenches, or if I should shape poly's around the trench.. Using the negative poly's, I could use a big solid poly for the ground, and then just a few to cut out the trench. Using the second way, it would require quite a bit more poly's to make the trench... Would there be a difference in rspeeds between them? I'm looking to keep rspeeds as low as possible in the trenches because of the massive amounts of personel that will be there...

Also, is using 1 huge poly better/worse/same that dividing it up into maybe 4 or 5 big poly's

Generally it is bad to use subtraction (negative) geometry to cut holes on anything other than a flat wall. The reason is that, although the hole may appear to be one piece, it will actually be broken up into tons of tiny pieces in wierd ways.

If I were you, I would go in and manually add those brushes to make your hole. It offers more control

About Setting the Objective Message
***Munf***Problem - I have typed up the objectives but when I perform a quick compile in DDAY Quark to check things out in the Q2 engine, the objectives do not appear on the screen. I edited the template and saved it under the dday\pic\objective directory with the same name as the map that it belongs to. I am wondering if maybe the objectives will only appear once I do the full compile, or should they be appearing after the fast one? As in do I have a problem here (only on this subject, don't answer the question concerning any personal problems you may feel I have) or are things operating correctly?
---Fafner---You have to run in multiplayer mode for the pic to show up. Type deathmatch 1 before you load the map
***Munf***Ok, now it loads but is distorted, text slanting to the right at 45 degrees. Maybe I edited it at too high a pixel setting on my screen? Also the Vipersoft template is gone. I tried resetting the pixel setting but that did nothing. It loads up in a box, but the coil and "Ob" are over to the right, then "jective" is on the left, same line and distorted, then the coil slants down right to left rapping abound the image three times. I am using Corel 7.0 Photopaint, and the Arial Text. I have gotten this far, might as well make it as perfect as I can.
---LooseBob---Use 256 colors and saving as .pcx . Is Coral placing layers on the pic? such as background layer1 / text layer2? I havent used Corel in years, but u may try saving it as a 256 color jpg then convert it to a .pcx.
---DOD Renegade--- do it in paint and convert it using wally or whatever your using
---Castrator---yeah, make sure that you save it in the correct pallete (q2 pallete).

***Munf*** So how do I safe it in the q2 pallete? I have copy saved one of the other objectives and named it so it would match my map, and the objective loaded fine. Obviously it is my paint program that is doing something. Is there a recommended way to do this? It is apparently a bit more than just opening, type, and save, at least in my system.
---Munf--- OK, this appears to be solved. I found Wally 1.5 and down loaded it. I opened the ddaytemplate.pcx in Corel PhotoPaint and put in my message, then saved it with the new file name. It was still distorted in Q2. Then I opened Wally and loaded up the pcx file, and saved it again. Apparently Wally stripped away whatever was in the Corel based pcx file because it loaded ok.

Fundamental Design and Compiling Related Questions
***Munf*** After reading through the info A) I understand now why a lot of the maps are shaped so maze like B) my respect for fafner, afro, castrator, and the other mappers has certainly grown in the past week, C) have completely tossed the other map and designed a new one. It is a simpler for of the original idea, maxes out at wpoly 860, which is less then dday1 does at 883, atleast what I saw.

I tried having a big drop off on the other side of the map so as to not see the beach (couldn't visually) but there I got a count of 1020. I wanted to have a hunt out in some woods and then find a house with german plans, but couldn't figure out how to limit the sight of the engine. Obviously the engine could see through the blocking terrain I had. Maybe I didn't bring down the sky enough so the other terrain didn't block the engine from seeing through? Or have I missed the point entirely?
---LuisX---Scroll down at this page until you see "gl_showtris" that might help you

---Fafner---You have to do a full compile to know what the r_speeds will be. They'll always be really high if you just do a quick one.

I am using the compile with quark. Could you explain a full compile to me? I have them down to 980- at the moment.

---Fafner--- If you hit "GO!" under Normandy on the menu, that's a full compile, it should take several hours to finish. If you choose "Fastest (full bright)" that's a quick compile.

---Castrator---I think I may have covered this in the FAQ on this mapping forum, but the compilers work like this: A "fast compile" (which is what quark calls it) simply runs the bsp.exe program. bsp draws out your geometry so you have something to stand on. QuickGo in Quark runs the bsp program, the vis program, and the rad program. VIS, short for visibility, calculates what the engine will/wont draw at any particular instance based on where the player is standing and what the engine thinks you could see from there. When you run a quickgo, it only does a simplified version of this. A full GO will take much longer but your r_speeds should be reduced a lot as it will take more time calculating what you can and cant see. And the rad program in the compile is the lighting program.
~If you havent already, you should propably download an alternative lighting compiler to the one you get with the quark compilers. ArghRAD allows you to do lots of cool lighting tricks like creatiing artificial sunlight and shadows. There is a manual on the site that you can read up on for learning how to use the various functions. To get it to work in quark, you just change the compiler links under the options page, replacing the RAD executable line with the one for arghrad.exe

***Munf*** I have tried to use gl_showtris 1 on my maps and get no response, as in it doesn't load or run, at least from what I can tell. I have read the Rust info, and have gone to a few other sites, but no luck.
~I have OPEN GL, AMD k6-300, 256mg Ram, so i don't think it is the system, I just don't get how to execute this. Is there an independent program I need? The info I read made it seem I could run gl_showtris 1 from the console of Q2 or from the Run command, but neither works.

---Castrator---just type in the Q2 console
gl_showtris 1
gl_ext_multitexture 0
Then hit enter and return to the map.

***Munf*** I couldn't figure out how to put in the line "designed by ---"
---Castrator--- To put the designed by line you use the following: /n
So if I wanted to say:
Omaha Beach
Designed by Castrator
I would type: Omaha Beach/nDesigned by Castrator
Open up the worldspawn entity and put it where is says "message"

***Munf ***I am completing a map for the russian side of things. 1) Back when it came out I read a thread about how to set up the teams in the worldspawn. My memory is that you said to set the Russians to the number 0. Is this true or is there more involved? Like do I have to type "0 Russians" or anything else? 2) Does the russians dll support random spawns?

---352(Storm)---You need to edit the info_team_start. Use the basic allies one as a base, and change the team name from Allies to Russians, and dll from usa to rus.

---Afrow-UK---Russians are 0. You just need to enter 'rus' as the Russians' team dll (in the Russians' info_team_start). The random spawns code is in the game dll (gamex86.dll) not the team dll's - so yes, random spawns can be used for anyteam. Just put down as many spawn points as you like.

***Munf*** I run the program, from the messages it seems to find the rus dll, but then I get
weapon_tb23 has bad precache string
and the run shuts down.
Any ideas?

---LooseBOB---Your map is fine that error is because you dont have the server patch for 4.1. When the russian pak was released there was a file that servers needed to run the dll. If you dont have this file u can't run any russian maps on your pc. Open up any russian map on your own and you'll get this error.

Get the D-day 4.1 patch here.


***Psycho*** 1 thing and 1 thing alone..... HOW THE HELL DO U MAKE MAPS FOR RUSSIAN DLL??? Sry for caps but o well.... Well Faf??
---Fafner---Exactly like any other dday map. Except for the info_team_start, for the allied one you would put

dll: rus
message: Russia

(instead of dll: usa and message: Allies)

If you know how to make a normal usa vs grm Dday map it should be really easy.

***(SAS)Sarge*** whould the obj_owner be 2?
---Super Sniper Chicken---its just like regular allies the only dif is the dll name and you can change the team message name if you want to. allies are 0 and axis are 1 unless you are usin those weird premade info_team_starts for quark with team1 and team 2 then you would have to figure the dif out between the two numbers and compare them, cause now team one is obj owner 0 and team 2 is obj owner 1 . if ya wanna try something weird , in 3.2 if you put axis as "team 1" and allies as "team 2" when you throw the nades they would change in the air to the other teams nades.

Funionz~Public Beta testing = baaaaaaaad
Funionz~because that leads to multiple versions, people get confused, and its especially bad if youre self concious about the look of your map.

Could you kindly direct me to something telling me how to use the light entity? The info at Rust and AOW seem to assume I already know how it works and they are telling me enhancments. When I hit GO! or do the three compile steps I keep getting the same light (ONNNN!!!! and there is no shading or anything.
~Also, the sky that I have, it has a black area along the bottom so the sky doesn't appear on the horizon. Is there anyway to change this, short of moving the ground of the Worldspawn up and hiding it with fences and hedges.
---Castrator--- I assume by lighting you are talking about creating an artificial sun? Go to ArghRad ( and get that compiler tool. Point QuArK (or whatever editor you are using) to the exectuable for Arghrad (arghrad.exe I think) instead of the current Rad compiler (probably rad3.exe) that you have it going to. Then just follow the tutorials on the ArghRAD site for use on setting up a sun.
~As for you sky problem, no there is no real way to fix it other than actually editing the sky images. You could fill in the images for it with a differnet color or try a different sky. Or you could try your suggested methods. BTW, moving worldspawn up wont help as it will move the entire map up with it, not just the sky.
***Munf***I have the all lit up look still. There is something I am not setting right I guess about worldspawn.
~In Quark 6 I have set the path for Arghrad to e:\quake\dday\ for both gamedir and moddir. This is the latest setting. I had the gamedir on quake for a bit but changed it to the new ones.
~Is there some place that the information that is on the consule during quick compile is stored. It goes by so fast I can't read it and then it is gone after the game loads. However I do see the words "warning" and "error" go by. If I could read it I might have a clue what to do.
~In worldspawn I added a "_Sun_Ambient" "40" command. I thought the instructions said if I did that it would turn off the surface lighting. The instructions for 1.50 say to put the commands for lighting and suns in the worldspawn specifics, yet each light has those specifics in them and the dday quark instructions seem to say to put them with the lights.
~I have four sections of the map, each cut off from the other by a wall to keep the wpolys down. In each section is a light and a info_null refering to each other. Each light has the color and brightness I am attempting.
~One of the things I read in the instructions is to not have a surface on the same plane as the sky. As I have walls that touch the sky in order to cut off the various sections, I am thinking that might be a problem. Maybe I should accept the all lit up look as a trade off to time? It looks like a fun map but I fear it might be beyond my experience to work the lights right now. Your maps I notice are quite compact and only one theme, while mine has four themes. Maybe I should make them four maps that load to one another, each with it's own sun.
Anyway, a few screen shots, and again thank you for your willingness to train me.
---Castrator---First off, sky lighting is not done with the light entities in the map. It is cast from the sky brushes. You enter the values in worldspawn. Read below for more tips.
~Ok, here is a trick that I've always used for getting the lighting right. Make a test map. Just load a new map in quark and delete the little light out of the map that it loads. Then add your own sky settings (according to what I describe below). I usually apply some of the most common textures in my map to the test map and put some kind of box in the middle that will cast a shadow. This helps you tweak the lighting as the compile time will be about 2 seconds each time.
~The way ArghRad sun works is:
First select all your sky brushes and check to see (under surface properties) that the "light", "sky", and "nodraw" flags are checked. Then, under the VALUE box in the Face Flags window, type in the same numerical value for all the sky brushes (any number, say 200 or something). Just make sure its the same number for all the sky brushes. It has to be applied to every brush in your map that is a sky brush. If you dont do this, your map will be pitch black when it lights.
It doesn't sound like you are doing the sun values right. When I make a sky, I go into worldspawn, and type the following stuff:
_sun_light (followed by a number)
_sun_ambient (followed by a number)
_sun_diffuse (followed by a number)
_sun_color (followed by a series of numbers representing RBG values)
_sun_angle (followed by two numbers to represent the pitch and yaw of the sun light angle
This is all described on the ArghRad site. You dont need to enter all these settings, but they make the sunlight look nicer. On dday3, here are the settings I used (to get them, I made a test map and tweaked the numbers till I got the shadows and color the way I wanted them):
_sun_light 350
_sun_ambient 55
_sun_diffuse 300
_sun_color .5 .8 1
_sun_angle 10 -30
BTW, to see what the console has spit out after a compile, go back into Quark and click on the little question mark icon up in the menus (right next to the Option menu). Then click on 'view console'.
Hope that helps,
I broke off the town part, set the settings, and it lit up! I guess the entire map just overwhelms my system and it freezes, so it needs to be in parts, but it lit, and look cool.
---Castrator---It may be that the map is just that large and open that it takes forever. With dday1, it took my system (p2 400 128MB RAm) 24 hrs to compile completely. Remember though, you can do a light only compile if you have already done a bsp and a vis on it. I know when my computer compiles, if I hit CTRL-ALT-Delete, it tells me that quark is frozen...but it really isnt. Generally if you check your processor usage during a compile, you will see it is running at 100%, making the computer seem like its bogged down/frozen cause it is doign so much calculation

***(SAS) Sarge*** Ok, as we all know i am mapping The Longest Day campaign. I am just about finished with longestday1. But i need to know how to light. I have green lights in a tunnel, so i dont want light in there except the green lights. I just want a dim sunlight on the out side part of map. Please respond soon. The sooner you respond, the sooner The Longest Day comes out.
---Munf--- (refers to lighting above, then) Because of the command to make the world spawn light,sky,nodraw you essentially turn of all light not generated by the world spawn. Thus all of the lighting is very natural, and if you are in a cave the lighting will only be at the mouth of the cave. Within the cave you can then place you green light, and there will be only a bit of sunlight at the mouth of the cave. To clarify. What is turned off is the full bright lighting one has when you do a fast compile. If you have given the cave textures a texture flag of light, and in the value area placed a number higher than 30 (less than that may not be seen, but try it) then those textures will emit a light. Depending on how strong you want this light go back and increase the values. If you have multple textures in the cave then you can select all the textures or just the ones you want. If you do the sky lighting I described before then outside the cave you will have "natural sunlight" while inside the cave you will have the coloration you applied.
---Castrator--- you forgot to mention that you need the arghrad compiler for the sunlight feature to work.
---Afrow UK---I never set the colour of the light through WorldSpawn, I simply use a selected texture for the sky, and that will give off the same coloured light as that of the texture colour.

eg. a dark texture will emit dark light where it touches the surfaces in your map.
If you have the tunnel, and the sky light cannot reach it, then it will be completely dark. Putting green lights in there will make green spotlights inside your tunnel. For your sky, use a nice dark texture, and apply it with the 'sky' 'nodraw' 'light' flags set, then make a value of around 225. Now set the values in WorldSpawn, that was talked about further up in this topic.

The best thing to do, is to make a small box, with a ground, the spawns, and then the sky box around it.
Try different coloured textures on your sky box, and different values in WorldSpawn.

***Munf*** I have a question about getting the planet to light. I know that in the worldspawn you set the borders to light, nodraw, and sky, and that the value have to be the same. However one mapper has suggested that texture flaging all the surfaces that are not seen as nodraw helps with the Rspeeds.
Does the act of texture flagging these surfaces nodraw effect the lighting? Do they also have to have the same value as the worldspawn? Or is the lighting from the worldspawn independent of the other textures?
---Castrator--- I assume by lighting the planet you mean adding sunlight, correct? As for the "nodraw" flag being applied to various other brush surfaces, it doesn't do anything. Try it in a sample map. Make a square box and apply the nodraw flag to just one side and do a full compile. You'll notice when the map compiles that the side with nodraw is still drawn. This is because nodraw only works when it is applied to the ENTIRE brush, not just one suface. So, no, applying nodraw on select sufaces does not effect r_speeds because the entire brush is drawn anyway. It also doesnt effect lighting because the entire surface is drawn like normal. It doesnt do anything unless it is applied to the entire brush.
Also, yes, ArghRad generated sunlight is independent of other lights and texture lights. It does, however, take the color of surrounding textures into account when the sunlight bounces off of them, producing mixed colors.
I should have also mentioned that if part of that cube is sticking through a wall out into the void, that cube will be automattically cut off and not drawn. If however you have that cube say, in a hidden corner somewhere, and you really never see it (ie: not seen surfaces), the engine may or may not draw it. It all depends on what VIS thinks it can see and there really isnt much you can do about getting it to not draw it short of the usual r_speed reduction techniques and Hint brush work (see RUST tutorials on that).

***Munf*** I am designing a map using the digger to make a tunnel just under ground level. When I stand up my head went through the ground. I was able to run the entire length of the map under ground with my head above ground, though with intense HOM.
---Munf---Dig deeper.

***Munf***There are two german pillboxes. Part of the objective is to get inside the german cave system and find ammo under the pillboxes, blow up the ammo which blows up the pillboxes. However I am having problems with it. ~If I make it a func explosive then I can also blow it up from down on the beach and don't need to get inside. I could use a trigger to to set off a target explosive, but pushing a button to blow up a bunker seems a bit lame to me. May a trigger that blows the ammo and the bunker at the same time so it seems rational?
~When I blow things up I use two systems. One is the func expolde. The other is I draw two shapes, one the original, and a second blown up shape within the original. Then when the original goes up, you see the remnants in the second one.
---Castrator---Make you tnt/ammo a func_explosive with a target of the pillboxes. Make the pillboxes out of func_Walls. Initially have them complete/intact. When you blow up the tnt, have it target the func_wall to switch over to a blown up version of the func_Wall/pillboxes. For added effects, put target_explosions over where the pillboxes are so it looks like they are exploding. YOu can use trigger_relays to give the explosions different times and finally switch over the pillboxes to a destroyed state. Boya!
---Afrow UK---The trouble with having a func_wall 'appear' as an exploded lump of something, any players there before the func_wall appears will get stuck inside it when it does appear. Make sure you have a trigger_explosion that gives off a lot of damage, so that anyone inside the pillbox will die anyway!

***Munf*** Problem, in the dday quark that I am using, a func_explosive can be a target, but it can not target something else. So far the only thing I can find that works is a func_button tied to a target explosive like the mines that are in hedgerows. How about there are small crates of ammo just outside the pillboxes, stacked like stairs and when those are blown the stairs are gone?
---Castrator---Func_explosive is quite capable of targeting other things. I've used it tons of times (for instance breakable glass that targets a target_speaker to play a glass breaking sound). Just because you don't see a field that says 'target' in the func_explosive doesn't mean it won't work. Hit the little "+" button when you look at the specifics of the func_explosive. Then type target, then your targetname. That should work.
---Munf---Just for anyone interested, what I did was use the func_explosive (thank you castrator) to target both a target_explosive and a func.object. You blow the func_explosive which sets off the target explosive to kill everyone in the pillbox, and then the func_object appears and falls in to fill up the pillbox and close it. It seemed easier than working out how to flash the walls in and out and gets the job done.

***Munf*** I have this German base. Right now the allies jump over a sandbag wall to get in. I was thinking build the wall higher and the allies have to blow a hole in the wall to get in. Func_explosive_objective won't work because though it blows up it awards points, even though I tell it not to. I cant figure out how to use the EXPLOBOX which might work as the description at RUST says it is those exploding barrels, but doesn't say how to use them. Also Function Explosive doesnt' seem to do the trick.
---Super Sniper Chicken---just use a func_explosive it should work if not keep messin with it. play with the specifics
---Munf---Gee that was simple enough. I had always used func epod with a trigger and had the idea I needed a trigger. Hell, just shoot the sucker, that is a lot easier

***Munf*** I would like to ask what you think of the effort to destroy something. Exatly how many times should you have to shoot a radio? In real life one bullet will do the job. How many granades for blow up an ammo pile when one will cause a mess you wouldn't believe?
---Braveheart--- I'd say two shots for a radio and one grenade for an ammo pile.
---Spaz---The reason it takes a bit more in the game is because of these people who just throw grenades in the general direction of something in the hopes that they hit something as they are being gunned down. Kinda lame. not to many people in real life would run into a room full of enemies holding a live grenade, knowing they will be gunned down.

***Munf*** What if I put the ammo in various rooms behind locked doors, and you have to shoot the door off with several bullets or a granade, and then you toss the nade?
---Julhelm---Even better, have the doors locked and the team must shoot/touch other objects to unlock them.
---AfrowUK---That would be good, or even make a lock or bar on the door that must be shot off

RANDOM SPAWNS (this is just a statement by Darwin)
I had it fixed it so that mappers can have random spawns now. What you do is just add as many extra spawns as you want. For example a bunch of info reinforcement start ents for each team, and its flexible too because if you have a bunch of reinforcment spawns all over BUT you have one sniper specific spawn somewhere then the sniper will always spawn there. You can add as many extra spawns for any class too, so airborne can always fall from different areas, etc. From what I tested, playing with those extra spawns in 4.0 has'nt crashed anything, so they can be added into a map now, and it will 'work' later.

***Munf*** I have tried using the funk-speaker, and the sound area of the worldspawn, with trigger once and also tried to use a spawn flag, but I can't get any sounds to trigger.

---LooseBOB---Experiment some.. its tricky to get some sounds to loop right. Most of the wavs in dday sound folder allready are pretty well edited and easy to add in like ambient sounds.

Example from a map of mine...

"classname" "target_speaker"
"noise" "nav/pump.wav"
"volume" "1"
"spawnflags" "1"
"attenuation" "3"

***Munf*** What is puzzling me is how to get the sounds started. Apparently they are reading in fine, but from what I have read there is a need to trigger them, or I might be wrong. What I want ambiently is crickets, birds, I have some combat wavs, things like that.
~The second probem is getting a sound during the time people are picking teams, I cant get that to go either. The instructions make it like this is easy so i feel like dufus, but I think it will improve the experience if I can figure this out.
---LooseBob---The sounds will stay on if if the spawn flag is set to "looped on not looped off" I use a different editor than most mappers but im sure theirs an option to set it to loop over and over. Or you can add a timer targeted to the sound and have it randomly make noise like a bird and such. Good Luck
***Munf***OK I got ambient cricket noises. I also would like to have a sound I have or a propellor plane with hmg shooting to run occasinally in the background. Can I have two ambient sounds at once?
Background playing sounds- I know most mappers put speakers over the whole map just so one sound will be played around the map. I used this on trenches, but ever since I have used a very simple method...

If you use WorldCraft, turn SmartEdit on the Object Properties window before continuing.

have a target_speaker
Variables -

attentuation = [ -1 ] - Will play the sound over the whole map ONLY when targeted.
volume = [ from 0.0 - 1.0 ]
noise = [ eg. dday2/amb_battle.wav ]
targetname = [ bgsnd1 ]
(anything else off, or set to 0, no SpawnFlags set either)

have a func_timer
Variables -

target = [ bgsnd1 ]
wait = [ Sound file length, dday2/amb_battle.wav is 106.5 seconds long, whitch would be 107 seconds for wait ]
> wait = [ 107 ]
random = [ 0 ] - set to 1 if you want it to target stuff at random (I think?)
delay = [ 0 ]
pausetime = [ 0 ]
SpawnFlags = [ 1 ] - StartON

To find the length of any .wav, you will need to extract them from the *.pak and then open them up in Windows' Sound Recorder. You can find its exact length from there. Make sure you make the seconds to a whole number, eg. 1.5 seconds = 2 seconds.
~The func_timer will target the target_speaker and trigger the sound to be played over the whole map. As soon as the sound finishes playing, it will be triggered again by the func_timer, and does this continuously.
***Munf*** I want to add other sounds on top of this (plane engines, AA fire) and I don't seem to be able to.
---Castrator--- I assume they are custom sounds? They most likely aren't recorded at the right frequency. When the map loads, see if you notice an error message about that. If you have a sound editing utility (like Cool Edit 2000 or anything capable of resampling sounds) resample the clips to mono/8-bit/sample rate: 44100.
(note from munf - Q2 does play lower quality sound files, but it sounds like it. However sound files that are too large can shut down some players Q2 when they load. I had one that was 1.8+mgs that did this. I resampled it a 11000 and the files was 580 k, so it worked, but sounded like a scratchy radio. Fortunately I was playing through a radio).
***Munf*** Actually I am also a musician so I have just the software. I noticed wandering around dday 1 that while on the landing craft you hear a ocean wave sound, then when you cross onto the beach that disappears and the fighting sound comes, and then when you leave the beach you get the weather sound, so apparently these sounds are segregated somehow, or triggered somehow. Humm, a mystery to solve.
---Castrator--- yeah. It usually comes down to trial and error. I know I've learned all this stuff from scatching my head, trying things, and reading lots of the more of those, the better. As for dday1 and its ambient sounds, its just a whole bunch of target speakers lined in rows across the beach that have the 'looped on' spawnflag checked. Not too much of a mystery =)
All you do is something like this. Line up a row of about 10 target_speakers with an ocean sound set in them. Then set thier spawnflags to looped_on.
Then further up the beach, place another row of them with the same settings except these would play the ambient gunfire sound.
Then the same thing for the thunder...more target_speakers with the thunder wav linked in them.

***Munf*** I released my maps, one of them OVER6 is causing peoples systems to crash. My suspicion is a large wav file of 1.8+mg, a speech form Eisinhower at 22000 mhz. Does that sound a probability?
---Castrator--- I am honestly not sure what it is, but it could be the sound as that is an awefully big load for one wave file.

Stokes (a statement) It has come to my attention that the servers are starting to migrate to Linux. We have a new problem... namely UPPER and lower case file names. It the case of Matthias' map, he called it 'Nuenen.bsp'. Now, in Windows, this doesn't matter as 'Nuenen.bsp' is the same as 'nuenen.bsp'. In Linux it isn't!
~I renamed the map after installing it to 'nuenen' to aid the voting (i.e. will people vote for 'Nuenen' or 'nuenen' ?) This worked fine until the map finished, and the map then tried to reload 'Nuenen'. **Crash** map not found.
~OK, to get around this, I now have two maps, one UPPER case 'N' and the other lower case 'n' for voting purposes.
~So remember, in Linux, A <> a, Nuenen <> nuenen.
~I have yet to see what happens if a texture etc. is all UPPERCASE and the map looks for a lowercase, but I will expect a 'file not found' scenerio. So my tip is ALWAYS use lowercase file names and handles when making your maps, and get into the habit of it (this goes for Web pages etc. also).

***Munf*** I am going through the process of lower casing all the sound and texture files I have so that the Linux problem is eliminated. However for the maps that I have already compiled the references to textures seems to be gone and replaced by the coding placed there by vis and arghrad. Do you know if there is a need to go back and recompile these maps so that the Linux won't have problems with texture calls, or should I only pay attention to other things like sound.wav and such things? In other words the things that appear as text in the compiled map?
---Castrator--- Your compiled bsp file still references the textures that the map uses. I *think* it won't care if you then go and make those textures have lowercases (in whatever directories you have them in). I'm not 100% on that though. You shouldnt have to recompile the maps, but it may be the case that when you change the texture names to lower case, the bsp will still look for the ones in uppercase, but I doubt it. If that is the case though, you can just open the bsp file with a text editor and edit the texture names manually (albeit this will be somewhat time consuming unless you can do universal replaces for texture names).

Munf (A description) - first, go to RUST and read about skies so assure you understand. You need two sets, one for open_gl and one for software, and yes you need both. You need an up,dn,lf,rt,ft,bk image. You place these in your dday/env directory. Then in the World Spawn under sky you type in the name of your new sky. So I have an environment called munf1. In the worldspawn the sky is munf1, and the files are munf1up, munf1bk., etc.
~If you have JPGS or something of that level, there are too many colors and pixels. You need to have a Photo Editing Progam that can load the JPG. You need to resize the images to 256x256 pixels, then save/convert them to a TGA 24 Color Format. Save it as Normal. When you load up the map you may get a message about only Type 1 or other Type being the only formats supported, so you may have to play with the setting on your software.
~Once you have your TGA files, you then need to take these and make 8 bit pcx images of them for the software format, again still 256x256. You then have to apply the Q2 pallette to them. I then suggest you load them into Wally and load the pallette there, then save the pcx files.
`One trick to tell you about getting a nice blue sky with a photographic image. In my Photo Editor you can reset the image in pixels and the page size in pixels. Set up your up,dn,lf,rt,ft,bk all as page size pixels 256X256. For my imagedn I make it a dark green, a brown, a black. The other four sides and the up I make them a consistent color of blue. So now I have five sides all the same color of blue. Then on the four side ones I place a mask with a color that matches the bottom 256 W x 96 pixels high. I then open another window and load in the picture. I resample it's size to 256 wide x 96. I then copy it from its window and insert it as a new object on the side image I want, locating it so it covers the lower and sky color, often fliping it so the edges match right. Now I have a phtographic image with a seemless blue sky. I then place in my streaking and clouds, avoiding the edges of the four sides and the sky. When you load this the edges of the four sides will have the same color as the sky and bottom so they blend, and as no clouds intersect between them you don't have to get these aligned.

***Gruppenfuhrer*** I have been trying to convert pieces of photos to a .wal format so I can use them. The only thing I get is grayscale or screwed up colors or even no image at all. I am using adobe photoshop to do this and was wondering if there was a tutorial or if anyone knows. How to successfully convert a jpg photo to wal format without losing colors. SniperChicken gave me a web address to a tutorial but it only says how to create a texture in photoshop.
---Stokes--- What I do to create image files from photos for Quake2 is this.

~Edit the photo as you see fit. When done apply the Quake2 palette. You will know have a 256 colour picture. I would then just save as a *.pcx file.
~I don't know what file you use to convert to a *.wal file, but for example you could save it as a 256 colour gif file, and convert that to a *.wal file.
~Never convert a *.jpg -> straight to anything else without manually changing the colour depth... that's what buggers it up.

***Gruppenfuhrer*** I have gotten wally. It does creates the same results. And there tutorial is only about how to make a texture from scratch. Do I use a colormap.pcx file or are my Q2 palette files okay? I got my palette files from the link I posted above. Would anyone be interested in looking at one of the pieces of a photo I am trying to convert to a texture? I am wondering if this texture conversion thing isn't a 50/50 win or lose thing
---Castrator--- The reason the colors are all getting screwed up is that you are going from 8 gagillion possible color combinations to 256 color combinations under the quake2 pallete. Thus, converting from photos takes a lot of touchup work.
~I find better results converting to .wal format when I use PSP to scale down to 8-bit textures before converting to .wal format. I also load the quake2 pallete (from the wally directory) into the program before saving. Then I convert to .wal. It's actually easier to use Paint Shop Pro for texture conversions than it is to use Adobe (at least when it comes to Quake2). And you should be able to find a demo of the prog out there for free...then get a crack for it off of something like
---Munf--- I have started having good results. I use a program called PhtoPlus from Serif Software ( to create the image, then use the export optimizer to translate it to an 8bit pcx file. Then I load Wally and import it, apply the DDAY palette, sharpen the image, then save it from Wally to a .wal file. It isn't 100% but it does the job.

Setting up See-Through Barbwire
***Munf*** How do I build that cool looking see through barbwire?
---Castrator--- The way the barbed wire in the dday maps is made is to take a normal brush, like a square or octagon shape, then apply the barbed wire texture to it. The next thing you have to do is open up that brushes' surface properties and check the "lava", "mist", and "trans66" spawnflags. The first flag makes the brush hurt you when you walk through it (and play a cloth ripping sound), the second makes the brush non-solid so you can walk through it, and the third spawnflag makes it partially transparent so the pink part of the texture wont show up in openGL.

***Munf*** The maps are compiled.
~I have the maps in the dday/maps folder
~sounds are in the proper folders under sounds.
~objectives in the right place under pics.

When I try to zip them up WIPZIP 7.0 insists on either
A) zipping with no paths - thus I can't set it to extract properly or
B)inserts e:\quake2\dday\maps which is where I have my game at - thus I can't set it to extract properly.

What I need is to start at the dday directory, then have it include the paths beneath that, but I can't firgure out how. Obviously, given that others do it, there is a way. Some assistance please.

---Darwin--- here's how you do it. put the folders in the x:\ drive root.
Like so:
C:\maps (put the maps mapname-readme.txt there too)
add every file the map uses that does not come with 4.0

Then you select them all while holding down the Ctrl key.
Once selected...right click them ->winzip -> add to zip file.
Give it a name, use maximum compression, and most importantly Check 'save full path info'.

double check the zip in winzips classic mode. look at the path entries to make sure they are clean like env\ maps\ etc.
NOT dday\env or quake2\dday\env.... just env\.

And thats all there is to it. now it unzips to dday dir clean.

***Munf*** I need to figure out how to build those mines so I can put them in the barb wire system like was true at NOrmandy
---Castrator--- check out the dday sample map, I could be wrong, but I think we stuck an example of how to make a mine in there. Basically, its a func_button that targets a target_explosion right above it when u step on the button.

***Munf*** I have been looking through the commands for something to prevent the Germans from getting down on my beach. Something like if they touch it they dies, but so far I have only found things that kill both sides, which would make it hard for the allies of course. Can you think of anything?
---Castrator--- nope, short of asking in the coding/development forums for someone to make that sort of thing...or you can do something like on fafner's invade1 map

***Munf*** I noticed in DDAY 5, the bunker, that a flamer can shot flame through the wall at the dry side door. Is that known, or was someone using something to pull this off.
---Castrator--- The flamer through thing is a bug in quake2...the flamer can shoot through anything less than 16 units thick.

***Munf*** I compiled a map, it compiled but it had this error, and the lighitng didn't happen. I assume I exceeding something for ArghRad, but in my manual when you go to errors it says there are no errors.
----- ArghRad 2.01 by Tim Wright (Argh! -----
Modified from original source code by id Software
************ ERROR ************
---Castrator--- hmm...never seen that one b4, but Im guessing that it has somehing to do with running out of lightmap surfaces...does this map have lots of surfaces/is it really large?
---Munf--- Oh, you wouldn't believe how large. A lot of forest leading to a fort that has a passage leading underground and filling in under the forest. Anyway, that was what I was thinkiing. I'll try cutting it back and let you know it that helps.
~Regarding the problem, I removed all the caves and put everything in tighter. There are fewer entities but I don't think I had reached any limit on that. My guess is that a lot of the calves were long straight lines of the same texture on all four edges, leading to other long straight caves. I remember reading that there is a limit to how long an entity can be, and I suspect I either reached that or the combination of caves overwhemed Arghrad.

DDAY Setup Questions

***Munf*** So, I just spent 2 hours downloading your product, and there is no one to play. Let me guess, you didn't create a single player option, or did I miss something. SP is the best way to go. (I am so embarrased, I can't believe I actually said that!!
---Castrator--- D-Day is a free Online total conversion. It is Multiplayer only. Just click on the servers page and you will find plenty of people to play with. Read the manual for getting in the game.

***Munf*** Thank you. I keep hitting x and droppping my weapon. I went into my config file, both dday and quake, and told x to do something else, but everytime I reach for c to crouch and hit x i drop my weapon. How do I disable this, and why would I want to drop my weapon? Thank you
---Castrator--- In your dday folder, you will find a file called autoexec.cfg. Edit that file. It has all the dday specific binds in it and will load everytime you load dday. Make changes in it, not the config.cfg.
~The reason you would want to drop a weapon is if you pickup several guns. When that gun runs out of ammo, you would want to drop it since you can only carry so much weight at one time.

***Munf*** I am trying to figure out the binoculars as an officer. I hit 5 and get them, and then s to sight, but nothing happens. How do I aim? I haven't found it in the manual.
---Castrator---To aim with the binoculars, just press and hold fire. Then, to call your artillery, hit the key you have bound to artillery (I forget what it is by default off the top of my head...just look in your autoexec.cfg file).

***Munf*** Thank you, just tried it. I discovered that if you call in an airstrike, then point the binoculars down at your feet, they drop at your feet. I hate it when that happens.
---Castrator---haha, yeah, generally that would suck =)

***Munf*** I get disconnected a lot. is that a function of the web, or my 56 modem, my 4 year old rage 2 card, or that I run quake with some on the CD. Some of these I can fix, some I can't. I realize you are quessing but thought I'd ask.
---Castrator--- I know there have been some issues with software users having the game crash out a lot with beta4.0 due to the overhaul in graphics. But you have a 3daccelerator, so that shouldnt be the issue. Are you getting Overflow errors? Or is the game just crapping out on you? If it's an overflow error, than there is nothing I can really do. It's sort of an issue with Quake2 and slower net connections.
~You might also want to try dropping by the D-Day forums on our website. we have one of the strongest and friendliest mod communities out there. Most of the people on the forums will be happy and better equipped than I to solve wierd trouble shooting errors like this (as they encounter them more than I do).

---Munf--- Ok, I figured it out (I truly have no life). If you set the grid to 2, and zoom in a 2X1, you can see the grid. A soldier is roughly 3.5 of those grid squares. 4 is slightly over the head. Us this for scaling items on your maps.

---Munf--- If you construct say a building, or anything with multiple walls, you can group these. This allows you to move them as a unit, and to reduce the items showing on the tree. To the left of the Compass are four icons. The one at the bottom that looks like it was bent at 90 degrees is the group icon.

Run them in both Open GL and SW mode. The reason is in SW mode it will crash easier if something is on the edge. I keep getting a Bad Entities message in SW mode that I don't get in OpenGL. It has to do with a very thin surface that has been spun around too many times and the machine is struggling to maintain it. OpenGL can conpensate but it would be cleaner to just remove the problem and put in a new surface that doesn't give the engine a problem. Unfortunately this involves hunting down the offending poly, which can get tedious. This is another reason to group all the polys that make a structure and name them individually instead of just piling them all up in a mass. To find problem you click on a group and remove, quick compile, if the error is still there then return the deleted group, delete another, recompile, etc until the message is gone. Then you know (unless you have mutiple problems) that the group you just deleted has the problem and can work with it. Also grouping all the polys allows for moving with ease say a mutil story building with lots of detail. Just click on the group and move it.
Last edited by Mr. YOur no fun on Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:20 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Post by / »

I can't believe i read it all..
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Post by Mr. YOur no fun »

Well. that is impressive. It took about a year of learning, so figured I would leave this so others could benefit from the learning curve.
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Post by Stormwolf »

I've still got the PDF version of this I did: ... anda_2.pdf
#!/usr/local/bin/perl = $thedogsbollocks;

Always check your underpants for stray sheep.
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Post by Mr. YOur no fun »

Good I still have it on my computer, just in case. I am glad you had that version or it all would have been gone.
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Post by Lord fido »

Erm... I'd like to make a question concerning entities.

It's been 2 years since i last mapped. The last map i made was subway beta.

So, my question is... Can i assign a turret to a moving object? So like when you get in the cabin you press a button and the whole thing moves, and when its moving you can shoot its turret.
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Post by Fafner »

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Post by Lord fido »

And the last one:

Remember that time that you enabled those axis dogs on that server? was it from quark or from the server?
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Post by Mr. YOur no fun »

His dogs reminded me of some from a 3 map series based in ww2 which had attack dogs. It looked like that strogg robot dog reskined, new sounds, and a bit more mean. However one brings a strogg forth into a q2 map, then reskin it, that would seem the ticket.
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Post by Lord fido »

So i just add it as a strogg? So theoricaly i can make some bots out of stroggs, right? Sweet!

Where can i download the .md2, sounds and skin of this "dog"?
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Post by Rab,d »

The server would have to support that. Fafner had a modified .dll running to enable the dog. You can't add it by .bsp alone.
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Post by Lord fido »

I already know that. I'd have to run the server myself to try it, but wouldnt be worth it. I just wanna try this out.
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Post by Mr. YOur no fun »

As long as this link exists, get coconut 1,2 and 3. They were single player maps. 1 has wild wolfs and some bears, 2 has buzzards that attack from the sky, and frogs that zap you with their tounges, and 3 has the dogs. Don't know if they work on the dday dll, but they did not need a server to run on my computer. And those dogs are quite mean.
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Post by Lord fido »

thanks. I'll try it out when i get my map to work.
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Re: The Q&A thing from the D-DAY Forum concerning how to map

Post by perer »

It seems is down, is there are good alternative?
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Re: The Q&A thing from the D-DAY Forum concerning how to map

Post by Mr. YOur no fun »

As Q2 is sooooooo old the links are being killed off. But this might happen.
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Re: The Q&A thing from the D-DAY Forum concerning how to map

Post by perer »

Ok it is up again :D... nice
Edit, well only the link you posted.... hopefully other pieces will return that might be usefull.
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Post by Cerv »

/ wrote:I can't believe i read it all..
How in God's glorious name did you ever prevent the blood vessels in your scleras from exploding, your tear ducts from drying up like a jellyfish under a heat lamp, your eye sockets from rapidly decaying due to collected background radiation, your corneas from shrink-wrapping your eyeballs, the melanin in your irises from bleeding out, and your pupils from getting free laser surgery?

And getting bored.
Took 11 years of playing dday to figure out the command is "shout afrow_shout4". I shall return to the battlefield with a burning vengeance and a wicked cackle.
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Re: The Q&A thing from the D-DAY Forum concerning how to map

Post by Mr. YOur no fun »

He was interested in mapping.
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